Interview with Paul Kirchner

1.  Paul, are you still waiting for the collapse or has it already happened?

Depending on how you define it, the collapse has already happened (culturally), will soon happen (economically, politically), will happen eventually (climate crisis, plague, Yellowstone caldera), or will never happen (zombie apocalypse). To me, it is always looming.

In my 20s I assumed it must happen by the year 2000, but that milestone came and went and still we muddle on, so perhaps I merely suffer from a lifelong delusion borne of chronic pessimism. I probably worry too much about the collapse, but it also cheers me up in some ways. For example, while I’m concerned about not having enough money for my old age, I comfort myself with the thought that eventually money will have no value so we’ll all be in the same boat. How do you like that, Jeff Bezos?

2.  Your art is strongly influenced by surrealism. What is so special about this movement?

What appeals to me about surrealism is that it combines the world of physical reality and the world of dreams, fantasies, and delusions. It exposes the layer below the surface. The outer world, beyond the shell of the body, conforms to physical laws. In the world of the mind, though, all is possible and all possibilities may be entertained. Like most people, I suspect, I experience life on two levels, much like the character in “The Secret Life of Walter Mitty,” fantasizing all sorts of things while going about my mundane routine.

Also, surrealism appeals to me because it’s amusing. In my comics I can make a joke of everything. I don’t feel bound by reality. Though I respect painters who can render a beautiful landscape, that’s not the way I want to express myself. I like to take a scene that would otherwise be normal and insert an element that makes it unreal and interesting.

3.  You’ve worked for “Screw” magazine. Do you think that the public can appreciate pornography as a form of art?

Some members of the public can accept it and some never will. It has to do with the prevailing culture. When I attended a comics festival in Frontignan, France, an exhibit was put up of my art, including Screw covers. The exhibit was in a public space and children could wander in and out. I got the impression no one was bothered by it; they found it amusing and harmless. In America, that might not be the case.

It occurred to me to do covers for Screw magazine because the covers were often clever and well drawn, some by successful illustrators. However, the hard-core pornographic photographs inside the magazine were ugly and depressing, and it was hard for me to understand its appeal to anyone.

The difference between acceptable erotic art and unacceptable pornography is determined by the viewer, of course. An American Supreme Court justice once said he didn’t know how to define hard-core pornography, but “I know it when I see it.” I understand that. I appreciate erotic art, but there is material I find distasteful and disturbing (though I wouldn’t want to ban it).

4.  Which side are you on? DC or Marvel? Do you keep up with their recent film anthology?

When I was a comic book fan in my teenaged years, my interest was almost entirely confined to the Marvel books of Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko. I especially liked Ditko’s Doctor Strange, which had a strong influence on me. There was no one else at Marvel or DC whose work I found appealing. When Kirby went over to DC to do his New Gods series, I followed him.

I was mainly interested in the work of certain artists rather than in the characters. I liked Alex Toth, Alex Nino, Wally Wood, Bernie Wrightson, Steranko, and others, but by the time I was in my 20s I was more interested in Robert Crumb, Rick Griffin, Greg Irons, Moebius, and Philippe Druillet than in anyone at Marvel or DC.

I’ve enjoyed several of the superhero movies, particularly the origin stories: the first “Iron Man,” “Captain America: The First Avenger,” and—my favorite of all--“Deadpool.” I also liked “Logan” and some of the Spiderman movies, particularly “Into the Spiderverse.” As a fan of the comic book, I was very disappointed in the “Doctor Strange” movie.

I haven’t seen any of the recent Batman, X-Men, Avengers, or Superman movies. I don’t like the franchises where you have to follow a large cast of characters and a complex story arc; I don’t have sufficient patience or interest for that. I prefer superheroes whose powers are modest. When they become god-like, I can’t sufficiently suspend disbelief.

5.   In the era of limitless career-hunting how important is to overcome our own titanic failures and move on?

While I’ve experienced my share of failures, so far none have reached titanic proportions. I’ve been lucky, and luck counts for a great deal in one’s life and career. If I hadn’t gotten some encouragement and lucky breaks when I was starting out, I might have become discouraged and given up. But achieving some early success gives you confidence and enables you to build on it.

Even when I worked for Mego, a toy company that went bankrupt owing me a lot of money, it worked out because the contacts I had made there gave me work for years afterward.

Opportunities always seemed to arise when I needed them. For example, a few years ago, when I started drawing Hieronymus & Bosch, I knew of no outlet where I could place it and get paid. Then, after I had done about 50 of them, the Adult Swim company contacted me and asked if I could do a comics strip for a feature on their website. I showed them Hieronymus & Bosch and they ran 19 of them, paying me well. So that was good luck.

6.   Is there any hope for hopeless souls such as Hieronymus?

Perhaps. While working on Hieronymus & Bosch, I read some books about hell. Particularly inspiring was “Escape from Hell,” by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle. It suggested that everyone in hell in some sense wants to be there, because they have some problem they must work through. If they should finally resolve it, they could find their way out.

Perhaps one day Hieronymus will recognize and overcome his weaknesses and be released from hell. I did one strip where that happened with a different character, but Hieronymus is too devious to understand the lesson. Like Bill Murray in “Groundhog Day,” he has to relive his mistakes for as long as it takes for him to figure out what he’s doing wrong.

7.   Where is this bus heading to anyway?

I have always wondered that myself. I assume the Commuter—who has no other name—is trying to get to some sort of boring job, but he never seems to have made it. He is trapped in a surrealist nightmare, but fortunately it doesn’t bother him a great deal. His imagination is too limited to fully comprehend the weirdness and futility of his situation.

Paul Kirchner is an American cartoonist who has worked for various media (The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal etc) and big brand publishers (Marvel, DC Comics etc). His work is characterized by its witty multilayered sarcasm and surreal tendencies.